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Advance Particle Effect samples?
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Demostenes Offline
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Post: #16
RE: Advance Particle Effect samples?
(01-01-2012 06:00 PM)dragonfly3 Wrote:  What's not usable for production?

Quality of that fire. It is deep under other graphical capabilities of EE. So I am interested in limits of particle editor in EE. If there are any advanced examples, or if anybody was able to make something like that fireball I posted before.
(This post was last modified: 01-01-2012 07:52 PM by Demostenes.)
01-01-2012 07:48 PM
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dragonfly3 Offline
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Post: #17
RE: Advance Particle Effect samples?
(01-01-2012 07:48 PM)Demostenes Wrote:  
(01-01-2012 06:00 PM)dragonfly3 Wrote:  What's not usable for production?

Quality of that fire. It is deep under other graphical capabilities of EE. So I am interested in limits of particle editor in EE. If there are any advanced examples, or if anybody was able to make something like that fireball I posted before.

Ok, I'm going to try to be nice out of respect for Esenthel and the forum.

1. I was responding to dylantan and his initial post.
2. There is no need to insult people on this forum
3. It is unwise to trash other people's work when they pour their heart and soul into it, especially on this forum. And especially when you repeatedly ask for help yourself. People here don't typically insult others or their work here. You seem to have a knack for it
4. Why did you feel the need to address me and insult me and my work when my post was in response to someone else, and not in response to you?
5. Have you ever heard the saying, "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say it at all?"
6. What is it about me that you have continuously found the need to attack me over?

@Esenthel I am truly sorry if this post upsets you. I am not trying to start another flame war. But I do find it insulting when someone trashes my work when I post an innocent message in response to someone else. I don't like having the feeling that I can't post anything without being criticized, insulted, and attacked. I feel I have a right to defend myself. To tell one of your licensed developers that their product that is in production is "not useful for production" and then say you need a "TOP" example as to imply that my work is mediocre in my opinion is a direct insult to me and my entire team. It does not contribute positively to this forum in any way.

I admit I may have gotten harsh in a previous thread in response to Demostenes' attackes on me and perhaps unnecessarily. But a person has the right to defend themselves when attacked. These forums are not here for people to come with the attitude that they are better or smarter than anyone else. They are here for us to share positively. I've been on these forums for over a year and they have been peaceful and happy until Demostenes arrived and began insulting others.

I am not trying to turn yet another usefully informative thread into a flame war. I would appreciate it if Demostenes stop attacking and insulting me when I post. If he/she doesn't, then I would appreciate it if Esenthel address the issue so as to prevent flame wars from erupting.

I'm sorry but I am very proud of our particle work. Our fires look better than many fires in some AAA published games. They may not be 3D animiation special effects but I'm proud of what we have accomplished with simple 2D sprite particles. If you don't like it, don't insult it. There is no need for it in this venue.
01-01-2012 08:29 PM
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Ceryni Offline
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Post: #18
RE: Advance Particle Effect samples?
it mainly depends on your image you use

for an effect like in the video you need 2 or even more particle systems (one smoke one fire)

a try:

[Image: scaled.php?server=252&filename=f...res=medium]

and you have to find the right combination of lifetime growth factor and elements
(This post was last modified: 01-01-2012 08:58 PM by Ceryni.)
01-01-2012 08:58 PM
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Demostenes Offline
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Post: #19
RE: Advance Particle Effect samples?
2dragonfly: I dont understand, why do you feel insulted. A meant no offense. I only told you, that quality of that fire is nothing special, because it is fact. I am in gaming industry for some time, so I am able to judge this. And no, it is not AAA, you should wake up. What is insulting on it? Should I lie and tell you, that it is amazing?
How can you ever improve in your life, if everybody lies to you and continue to telling you, that you are great? If I post some pictures and somebody tells me sorry, it is nothing special, you should improve this, this and this, it helps me to improve myself and I am glad for such feedback, beause my own view is always subjective. It is far more valuable, that "wow, you are amazing".

American world, where everything and everybody is amazing and great does not motivate people to improve, actually it leads to opposite.

I told, that your fire is not productional quality and you start to cry, that I am insulting you, attacking you and trashing your work? It was same in other threads, you take everything as personal offense. Come on, start behaving like an adult.


2ceriny: Thanks. This look like a good way.
(This post was last modified: 01-02-2012 12:15 AM by Demostenes.)
01-02-2012 12:07 AM
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dragonfly3 Offline
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Post: #20
RE: Advance Particle Effect samples?
Now you not only insult me again and even more, but you also insult my country. I don't know what country you are from but manners are worldwide. There is a difference between constructive critism and flat out insults.

Why did you find the need to rudely remark on my work to begin with? A simple, "this fire is not exactly what we are looking for" would have sufficed. No matter what industry you work in it does not make your opinion the standard rules of all. There are markets for all sorts of games so to say something is not industry quality is an opinion not a fact. Have you seen Skyrim? My fire particles look just as good if not better than those.

I an not crying, I am an adult. I am asking that you stop insulting and attacking me. Esenthel has posted that this forum is to be a friendly place, not a rude one.

You don't have to tell me anything at all about my particles. I wasn't addressing you. If you don't have anything nice or constructive to say, don't post anything. I didn't ask for your opinion. I was showing the original poster of this thread my example in response to him. It was not asking you what you think.

I kindly ask you again to please stop being rude and insulting to me.
01-02-2012 12:27 AM
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aceio76 Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Advance Particle Effect samples?
(01-01-2012 08:58 PM)Ceryni Wrote:  ...
for an effect like in the video you need 2 or even more particle systems (one smoke one fire)

I actually think you need 3 at the least, and not just 2. You almost always need to include small debris flying out and fast. Anything more than this 3 should add more realism and depth.

www.thinkplaystudios.com
(This post was last modified: 01-02-2012 12:39 AM by aceio76.)
01-02-2012 12:38 AM
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Demostenes Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Advance Particle Effect samples?
(01-02-2012 12:38 AM)aceio76 Wrote:  I actually think you need 3 at the least, and not just 2. You almost always need to include small debris flying out and fast. Anything more than this 3 should add more realism and depth.

And what about performance impact?
01-02-2012 12:42 AM
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aceio76 Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Advance Particle Effect samples?
@dragonfly3: I was scouting around the net watching actual game footage of various online games, and be glad to hear that I saw very similar large fire particles with what you have initially created there. Good job. Now, you just need to refine it a bit more, and maybe add one more texture to the particles (splattering debris I think) and add more dark splotches and tones to the bright yellow fire. But for something you created so quickly, you have made what many games currently now out and in production have in their games.

@Demostenes: So you are a pro, and we're a bunch of indies. Then don't just say it's bad, help it be better. Say how it can be improved, why you would do it that way, and deliver your message better. It's easy to say good or bad, but more mature to describe how to make it better. But enough of that smile So you are a pro, eh?? How soon would a pro like you be buying an Esenthel license fitting for a pro? grin
(01-02-2012 12:42 AM)Demostenes Wrote:  And what about performance impact?

That's always the balancing act, no? How to make it look good but not kill performance? 2D sprite particles are, I would dare say, almost always the same in most 3D graphic platforms. The amount of texture memory and 2D draws required for a type of particle should be very similar. But I don't think I am mentioning anything more than a pro would know smile

www.thinkplaystudios.com
(This post was last modified: 01-02-2012 12:58 AM by aceio76.)
01-02-2012 12:53 AM
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Demostenes Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Advance Particle Effect samples?
(01-02-2012 12:53 AM)aceio76 Wrote:  Say how it can be improved, why you would do it that way, and deliver your message better.

Sure, I will prepare something of mine and share some results.
(01-02-2012 12:53 AM)aceio76 Wrote:  That's always the balancing act, no? How to make it look good but not kill performance? 2D sprite particles are, I would dare say, almost always the same in most 3D graphic platforms. The amount of texture memory and 2D draws required for a type of particle should be very similar.

I am asking, because this platform is new for us and something can bahave in unexpected way. For example lack of static batching was quite unpleasant surprise and so far problem NO1. We will see, if we are able to do something with it. If not, we cant move to EE platform (no matter how much we would like it), because this is big performance problem. Without batching it is not posible to achieve decent framerate for our scenes (no modern game could).
(This post was last modified: 01-02-2012 01:06 AM by Demostenes.)
01-02-2012 12:58 AM
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dragonfly3 Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Advance Particle Effect samples?
We created a new object type which allows us to set multiple particles onto one object and to create custom settings of each of those particles. It allows us to layer several particles into one. Our fire, although hard to see in the video I posted, has sparks flying out from it, layers of flames, and smoke. As I said in my post with the video, we did not take the time to tweak the settings of each particle, we just threw it together to create an example of how it is indeed possible to mimic an effect like the animated GIFs posted. But with time and patience, with our method, some exciting things are possible. Our method does not require placing multiple individual particle objects in the game world and it does not effect performance (you can possibly make out the FPS in the video).

As for the GIFs posted, these are 3D animations. It is difficult to get an identical effect with 2D particles. I would imagine that you would need to create an animated object or find a way to integrate a 3D FX plugin such as the FX effects for Torque or some other one into Esenthel. Otherwise, with enough play and practice in Esenthel's particle editor you can get as close as to be expected with 2D particles.

The best way to achieve it is to practice on your own. We can merely show examples and give suggestions here.

@aceio76 Thank you smile
(This post was last modified: 01-02-2012 01:08 AM by dragonfly3.)
01-02-2012 01:06 AM
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dylantan Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Advance Particle Effect samples?
(01-01-2012 08:58 PM)Ceryni Wrote:  it mainly depends on your image you use

for an effect like in the video you need 2 or even more particle systems (one smoke one fire)

a try:

[Image: scaled.php?server=252&filename=f...res=medium]

and you have to find the right combination of lifetime growth factor and elements

I love the fire density, its makes it look almost real. So far our attempts on the Particles effects are still mediocre at best. Thanks guys for the advice, I hope that we could make someone outstanding but i believed it would take times. Looking forward to more effects samples smile
01-02-2012 10:11 AM
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