Make it Champagne instead of Beer and you are on the right track, marlz

Champagne? I'll leave that to you posh boys Roly ... lol

Nice to see all You great programmer's here from Leadwerks! This engine is great, i'm glad I found it! You probably won't remember me, I never posted much, lol.. Also, wanted to say hi to this great community!

Hi ZeroByte.. yes I remember you and welcome

More friendly faces
Welcome!

yeah Welcome

Yup Welcome To Esenthel Community

Hello,
I'm new in game development and finally stuck with 2 engines to select: Esenthel & Leadwerks 3. Both supports platforms I need, both are C++, looks like both have good graphics capability, both support runtime world & object creation & manipulation, both support unlimited number of games with one license. Leadwerks is little more expensive for me (iOS & Android modules), but I have Shiva license, so could get some discount...
What makes me worry - Esenthel is one man company and I already got negative experience with Shiva (now they are in liquidation state). As I know Leadwerks has two members - not much but....

I would like to ask one question:
Why do you migrate to Esenthel ?
Is it engine quality or friendly forum or something else ?

Of course I will try both engines, but your answers could give me direction to test.

(04-20-2013 01:06 AM)tvsori Wrote:  I would like to ask one question:
Why do you migrate to Esenthel ?
Is it engine quality or friendly forum or something else ?

Hi Tvsori. Welcome to the Esenthel forums.

You've asked the question so I'll reply honestly from my perspective:

• Because the developer never really finished the last engine (LE2)
• Because Leadwerks IS a one man team and, unlike Greg here at Esenthel, never quite seemed up to the job. (Chris is an intern and to my knowledge has not been made a permanent employee although it may simply be this has never been anounced).
• Because to get anything like the functionality Esenthel offers now is two years off in LE3 and will cost you at least one more sizable cost in upgrades assuming it makes it that far!
• Because I did not like the way the developer treated his customers
  

Don't get me wrong. I liked LE2 as an engine, it just had some major bugs still that were never getting fixed.

The forum was great, I have no complaints there, but then so is the Esenthel forum

Good luck with your decision.

Just want to add that Pixel more or less nails it in my opinion.

Another note. First LE3 was introduced with the price of 999$ (pc only)
and then after massive critics, dropped to 450$. Then again a bit later
dropped to 199$. Now one can think.. Great, but I doubt that the plan
is to stay at 199$, when the price was originally set to 999$. Besides
that, this behavior doesn't give me any confidence of the developer.

LE3 will probably catch up to the level of LE2.5 sometime in the future
and might be a good choice then. The trouble is .... when? There is
a roadmap there but with no hints about time. And who knows if that
roadmap will hold, thinking of LE2.5 to LE3 transition where most of
the really good things with LE2.5 was thrown out and replaced with
nothing but a vague promise that it will be better later. It might, but
whats later?.

LE3 does not have any in-editor C++ programming as Esenthel does
and the Esenthel solution is quite a good deal compare, at my opinion.
Specially with its C# like additions.

At first you might think that the Leadwerks Editor looks like a more
full fledged tool, but after a while you will recognize that its the other
way around. Don't be fooled by the very simplistic look of the EE2 editor.
It really is a great tool and quite simple to use.

Regarding development for Android ( I cant tell about iOS as I have no Mac)
you will end up in using Eclipse. So the write once and publish on different OS
is kind of true I guess, but you are not using the same tools. As I have left
Leadwerks I'm not totally sure how this works now in the release. At least
in the Beta's you used Visual Studio for PC and Eclipse for Android.

I could go on talking about the Leadwerks C++ implementation and static classes
but I can summarize into that I think Esentel is a bit better.

Don't take my personal words for granted. I might be wrong
Check for your self and make the judgement. Personally
I recommend Esentel if you are a C++ programmer.

Good luck

..i was derailed, after i realized that Ill not be able to target platforms I was looking for (OSX/Linux), with same or similar quality as LE2.x with integrated fallback for older hardware..LE2.x, at its time offered real edge to indies, and i was really hoping to see growth of such system over all desktops(Win/OSX/Linux), and then spread to small devices(mobiles)..but, what happen is basically, shockwave to almost all LE2.x users, when it was clear that LE3 is going to be something entirely different and entering arena where other systems existing for quite some time, and many of them are very very powerful and completely free..in main time, environment where LE2.x shines, others slowly catching up, very nicely and by the time LE3.x eventually receive its 'LE2.x' mirror, I believe, others will be way ahead..as a developer whos trying to make a living out of developing games, i have no time for such experiments, and thats where EE filled up gap, just nicely, as I was indeed, looking for system such as EE (im missing Linux only, but im told it will be here, so its fine, as I have other things to do in main time)..also, having such friendly developer, such as EE developer is a massive plus, from my point of view..so, these are roughly, reasons why I dropped it..

You try to make up your mind based on facts, and dont let anyone affect your decisions, you simply give it a go, spend some time observing things, in updates, bugfixes, as well as forums, and you will get bright image, what to do..don't be emotional, be rational..

(04-20-2013 01:06 AM)tvsori Wrote:  looks like both have good graphics capability

Currently this is not true. LE3 doesn't have good graphics at this point in time. No deferred rendering, no dynamic shadows. Just a bunch of empty promises that the creator is very crafty at weaving and then breaking.

For sure test them both and make your own decision. However, in my experience, I have to say... save yourself some heart ache and go with Esenthel.

If you really wanna see what I mean (as in the reason we all left), have a read of this blog. It pretty much explains exactly what went down in the lead up to the mass exodus: http://nanodev.tumblr.com/post/454171597...er-service

Thank you for honest answers and kind advices.
You show me hidden things which could be realised only with time and experience.
For me that's enough to make a choice.
I'm C++ developer and C++ headers from EE looks very good from API point of view.
Also several showcases are quite impressive.
It's time to dig API and try to do something small by myself.

Great thanks to all of you.

I think Pixel Perfect, rstralberg, Ecco and Scarlet Thread perfectly sum up the reasons I dropped Leadwerks.

add RedOcktober to the line of Leadwerks refugees... and yes, for the very same reason the guys above have mentioned...

it looks like he's getting ready to charge all those poor guys who just paid for a license, an additional fee for the 3.1 update... i just alluded to it, and the ban hammer came down for 2 days...

i'm just fed up with that guy... can't tolerate it any longer...

i'm just waiting for the reaction when he announces his next price increase in order for people to license what they should've had from the start...

--Mike