(11-11-2013 12:13 PM)scotty1121 Wrote:  Hey Esenthel, with 1.0 licence holders is it possible for us to have a sellers licence too? Or will we have to purchase it separately? Many thanks.

Hi, yes, all valid Esenthel Engine licenses (1.0 and 2.0) allow you to sell items in the store. If you don't have a license then you can pay a seller fee from the Store.

The store is now ready, and the latest engine version has just been uploaded.
Please update EE 2.0 and use the new menu command "Esenthel Store".

Some people were asking about the terms of use, so now I can post them and explain everything:

Quote:1. You certify that you have full rights to sell the items that you're submitting to Esenthel Store (you're the creator of the item or you have acquired all legal rights in order to sell it)

Please don't upload things not made by yourself, taken from other games, other artists, other websites, etc.

Quote:2. Once item is submitted, it cannot be deleted (users that bought it, can access it forever)

You can't remove item which you have submitted, if a user has paid for it, he has the right to access an item and use it.

Quote:3. You will not encourage to purchase items from your own website instead of Esenthel Store

If you do, your items will be removed from the store and your account will be suspended.

Quote:4. Item price in Esenthel Store will not be higher than on your website

Equal price everywhere.

Quote:5. Sales are done through PayPal, you need to have a PayPal account in order to get paid, the income will be decreased by PayPal fees

Quote:6. 70% of sales will be sold through your PayPal account, 30% of sales will be sold through Esenthel PayPal account (which means that you get 70% income, and 30% goes to Esenthel Store)

Apple App store takes 30%
Google Play store takes 30%
Microsoft Windows store takes 30%
other game engine store takes 30%
It's only reasonable that Esenthel Store takes 30%
If it's not reasonable for you, please ask yourself a question, do you want Esenthel Engine to be better? If yes then this source of income will greatly help in the development.
If you don't agree with the terms, please don't use Esenthel Store.

Quote:7. You will not include files or descriptions related to other game engines than Esenthel Engine

Please don't include 3d file formats specific to other game engines, information related to other engines, like in "xx. engine you will get", "rendered in xx engine".
If you're uploading 3d models, I recommend uploading the source file blend/max/mb and exported version fbx/dae/obj.
I also recommend uploading simple EE 2.0 project that has everything already imported.
For example:
"Source/object.max"
"Source/object.fbx"
"Source/texture.jpg"
"EE 2.0 Project/ashdgjashdgjahs" - ready to load EE 2.0 project

Quote:8. After submitting items, they will be verified by Esenthel Staff before they will become available for sale, this process may take up to few days or more, depending on unforeseen circumstances

I will verify everything to make sure that the content is not offensive, it was created by you, files are correct with description, etc.

Quote:9. Esenthel Store operators reserve the right to refuse acceptance of items to the store, or remove them afterwards at any time without any specific reason, especially if they consider the items to be offensive or in any way inappropriate

If I think something is not right, I will contact you and ask to make changes, if you will not be willing to make the changes, I may not accept the item in the store.

Quote:10. Esenthel Store operators reserve the right to perform minor modifications to descriptions of the items that you have submitted

I can clean up the descriptions, format it better, or fix some typos.

Quote:11. You hold full responsibility for providing support to the customers which purchased your items

If there are any bugs/issues with your content, you will be the one to provide support to the customers, in the Store you can specify support contact for the developer (website or email).

Quote:12. You give permission to Esenthel Store owners to use the items (for making promotional images/videos/demos of the Esenthel Engine, including commercial games) as if they would've bought the item themselves according to the item's Terms of Use

I can make promotional demos/videos/games including your content. No, this doesn't mean that I can resell your own items, it is as if I'm your customer and need to respect your License/Terms of Use of the Item, except that I can use it for free.

Quote:13. These terms may change from time to time, failure to accept the new changes will result in your items being no longer available for sale to new customers (old customers can still access their purchased items according to the old terms)

If I make some adjustments, they will be small and reasonable. If I there would be any bigger changes (most probably there won't be) then people have the option to opt-out and no longer sell their items.

Quote:14. Esenthel Store operators offer no warranty or support in regards to the Store itself (for example if the Store becomes unavailable; your items disappear from the Store listing; by some technical error they would get accessible for free or at a different price that you've specified - you're not entitled to any refund/compensation and you will not take any legal action against the Esenthel Staff)

I hope everything will work ok though

Quote:15. Items are by default sold to Users with the Terms listed on Esenthel Store Login Screen, if you wish however to specify your own Terms of Use for the items that you submit, you need to include them in the Item Description visible on the Item Page in Esenthel Store, so the users can read the Terms before they make the purchase.

For example do not specify custom Terms of Use that are only available inside the Item Download File that users see only after they make the purchase.

Ok, so making the Store was a difficult yet very exciting task! I had to write lots of code in short time, so I hope everything works ok.
Please let me know if you have any issues and feedback! I always love to hear about your feedback, as long as it's positive of course haha.

super excited! Thanks for adding this to the engine!

(11-12-2013 06:36 AM)Ozmodian Wrote:  super excited! Thanks for adding this to the engine!

Thank you!

(11-12-2013 06:41 AM)Esenthel Wrote:  

(11-12-2013 06:36 AM)Ozmodian Wrote:  super excited! Thanks for adding this to the engine!

Thank you!

:)Well Done Greg

you're always up to it congratulations for the new store

(11-12-2013 10:54 AM)candam Wrote:  :)Well Done Greg

you're always up to it congratulations for the new store

Thank you too!

This is fantastic! Thank you for making this.

Congratulations, great addition to the whole Esenthel experience. I'm already excited to see the outcomes.

Doubt I will put anything up there... that license agreement is seriously dangerous.

(11-12-2013 07:04 PM)Zervox Wrote:  Doubt I will put anything up there... that license agreement is seriously dangerous.

Care to elaborate? I can't see anything dangerous except maybe if things get heavily abused and taken to extremes (can't see this happening either) then perhaps paragraph 11 & 12? But I've only glanced through it, and I'm pretty bad at recognizing potentially troublesome legal implications anyway..


@Esenthel I wanted to put up some free assets to test drive the store, give feedback on it and in turn receive some feedback myself (on my assets). After I log-in (is this really necessary if you're running a license activated editor?) I click new item and it says to setup a developer name, paypal and support address. I looked everywhere (even on www side) but there doesn't appear to be an option to set this information anywhere, or am I not seeing something?

Another thing I noticed is that you're able to open the store window only from the project list, and when downloading something the only options is to save to a folder. I think it would be nice If one can also just download & import assets or code directly inside an open project. I thought this was one of the reasons for having the store run inside the editor in the first place?

Nevertheless, I still want to congratulate you on the last engine update. Has some cool improvements and fixes for me, thanks!

Quote:14. Esenthel Store operators offer no warranty or support in regards to the Store itself (for example if the Store becomes unavailable; your items disappear from the Store listing; by some technical error they would get accessible for free or at a different price that you've specified - you're not entitled to any refund/compensation and you will not take any legal action against the Esenthel Staff)

2. Once item is submitted, it cannot be deleted (users that bought it, can access it forever)

This rings true even if you were possibly to update your product in which case you'd be supporting non paying customers(Hence disabling users based on 0 payment for downloading it anymore), afterall in the terms you have to bug fix your product(thats a given) but that basis should also be based on if your copy is legitimate.

Quote:6. 70% of sales will be sold through your PayPal account, 30% of sales will be sold through Esenthel PayPal account (which means that you get 70% income, and 30% goes to Esenthel Store)

12. You give permission to Esenthel Store owners to use the items for promotional demos/images/videos of the Esenthel Engine, and commercial games, without any fees or royalties

Byitself the 30% is ok but, you also allow free access to your product and potentially code makes it meaningless to sell code for users if EE will just use it in his game and release the source(Hence writing a combat system or the likes isn't very tempting as I am entitled to restrict people from opening source for everyone when they are using direct copy of my source code).

Quote:3. You will not encourage to purchase items from your own website instead of Esenthel Store
If you do, your items will be removed from the store and your account will be suspended.

4. Item price in Esenthel Store will not be higher than on your website
Equal price everywhere.

This means making bundles of products is impossible on your own website because it will encourage not to use EE store.

@Zervox

1) If you plan to sell an item for 10$ and the store DB gets messed up and offers your item for 0$, I think Esenthel will rectify the situation as ethically as possible, he just won't compensate you a full 700$ if the bought counter jumps a 100 during that time. I don't think it means everyone gets a free pass on the item for life and you'll have to support them or else.

2) I see your point, but I don't think Esenthel would actually try and outsell us by taking our code, bundle it in a game and sell it's source. It is an option, a grim one, but the wording allows for that possibility, true.

I'm totally OK with store items being used to promote the engine, for commercial game I don't know, I'd be more OK with the term 'negotiable'

3) I think you're good if you:
- offer the same bundle on EE store for the same price
- price of item in question is the same if bought individually on your website (not in a pack)
- don't advertise on this website to buy from your page
.. it only mentions item price, it doesn't specifically declare what an item is, so it could be a bundle or an individual item, in any case, individual item != bundle so it shouldn't apply.

I think Esenthel will soon have to use P 13.) to address some of these issues a bit better/clearly

Well, I am discussing in what the agreement actually entails and allows, not, what if scenarios.

As long as the agreement enables these faults I won't consider using it, simple as that.

(11-12-2013 08:02 PM)para Wrote:  @Esenthel I wanted to put up some free assets to test drive the store, give feedback on it and in turn receive some feedback myself (on my assets). After I log-in (is this really necessary if you're running a license activated editor?)

Yes, the license is not the same as Esenthel Store Account (if you work for a company, then the company can temporarily assign a license key that they own to you as long as you work for them and no one else is using the key), therefore you can use their License Key, but you're not the owner of the account.

Quote:I click new item and it says to setup a developer name, paypal and support address. I looked everywhere (even on www side) but there doesn't appear to be an option to set this information anywhere, or am I not seeing something?

Once you clicked it, on the bottom of the Gui Window your account info appears (the same as when you click on the "Account" button in the Esenthel Store window), then just please click on all fields and setup your data, all of this is available in the Editor and not on the website.

Quote:Another thing I noticed is that you're able to open the store window only from the project list, and when downloading something the only options is to save to a folder. I think it would be nice If one can also just download & import assets or code directly inside an open project. I thought this was one of the reasons for having the store run inside the editor in the first place?

You can open it from opened project too, not just the project list
there are more commands on the menu list in the project view, so maybe you've just missed it?
Direct importing to existing project will be considered in the future.

Quote:Nevertheless, I still want to congratulate you on the last engine update. Has some cool improvements and fixes for me, thanks!

Thanks!

Hi Zervox!
Why so negative? I'm doing my best to develop the Store to work best in the interest of users and me.
Please let me clarify some things:
14) This is just a safety that you won't sue me, take any legal action against me, so I can operate the Store without fear that one day a highly unlikely glitch will happen or some hacker breaks into the Store, and I end up in court because of that. I am of course doing my best to make the Store as secure as possible, as I am selling my own items there as well. So it's in best interest for you and me that everything works smoothly. Things that are covered here, relate to events that will most likely never happen at all. No, you will not have to support non paying customers.
12) Just because I can use the items doesn't mean that I become their copyright owner and will resell them. It is just the same as if I would buy the item myself. Once you purchase items you can't resell them.

Of course you can make bundles of items:
Item 1 - Character Model
Item 2 - Sword Model
Item 3 - Character and Sword Model (Bundle)

Sorry to hear that you won't be using the Store, but I see that other people really like the new addition, so at least that's good

Everybody! - looking forward to seeing your items there