There seems to be a change in direction for Crytek and Unreal going with a subscription system of charging a subscription fee to use their engine and royalties.

Sources:

http://cryengine.com/news/crytek-announc...ce-program

https://www.unrealengine.com/blog/welcom...l-engine-4

(03-21-2014 02:00 PM)aceio76 Wrote:  Yea this has been a hot topic of discussion in many forums and in the skype chat group I belong to. For me, anything that doesn't have a x% annuity/royalty/etc is a better arrangement.

I agree, royalties are a huge turn off, i prefer an up-front fee like what Esenthel engine does to a royalty based scheme. In-regards to a subscription service, it's a very negative approach, treating the game industry in the same light as a WoW subscription or a telephone contract.

I think for teams that are really serious about producing and completing a game the subscription + low or zero royalty system is a good one for two reasons:

• It allows a much smaller initial outlay for the game team whilst ensuring that they have the fully featured engine version and always remain up to date with updates enhancements etc
• It ensures a regular income stream for the engine developer providing a more stable financial base from which to support their indie customers
  

This to my mind is superior to the free but reduced functionality model with big outlay towards the end of development for the missing features to polish off the final game or the free but high royalty cost when published model.

My comments above really apply to just big commercial AAA quality engines as the number and quality of the toolsets they provide sets them apart from other engines. There is no question that if you can do without these ... engines like Esenthel remain superb value!

Is the Unreal4 license per-seat? With the royalties, it's still pretty steep, although a lot better than the straight up $50k + royalties.
I find it interesting that it's not even complete, yet they are releasing. No documentation, untested on Android/iOS, not PS4/Xbone support yet...

In other words, pretty much it's the same engine as U3. I will always stand by my belief that Unreal is the buggiest engine around.

it is very different of UDK, with a much better workflow and editor supporting multiple projects etc. and no unrealscript, you can work in VS2012-3(EE too!) in C++. there are lot of introductory videos and written stuff, fast response on questions. imo great start. I tried it but will cancel the subscription in the end of the month, and go back if there are new stuff again (they allow me to work with the not updated engine)... a hard competition but rather with Unity and Cryengine, smaller engines with much simple functionalities can do the job for many developers. if I were Esenthel I would check their source, it is not forbidden to get some technologies of it (as they stated).

Unreal =19 Euro incl VAT or USD per team(based on location), 5% royalty(you can contact them regarding paying some upfront fee to get rid of royalty), pay one month and you can develop for free, just no updates etc, but still source access etc. you can stop subscription at any time.

Unity = 75 per person + 75 per pro addon(?) and team license addon is +20 USD, minimum 12 months. If you stop paying the subscription you will be reverted to free edition.

CryEngine = 9.90 USD/Euro per member, no info have been released about what happens if you cancel subscription if it only means no access to updates or unable to login or disabling specific engine features.

awesome info.. didn't know that cryengine offers a subscription!

Here is my thoughts about this, for what its worth.
Before jumping into a new engine and specially those BIG one's, give it all a thought.

How long time did you spend learning current engine and the art pipeline that goes along with it.
If you are normal and not any kind of genius I guess at minimum a year. Moving into one of those
big dragons is not as easy as one could believe seeing the flashy advertisements. Plan for at least
one more year (probably more) to learn the new engine and to get things working again.

Then ask you'r self. Do I need to switch engine. What is it that motivates that?

If you are single developer or a small 2 man team I would recommend to stay with
what you have. The Big engines are to rich of features and possibilities to be handled by
such a small team if you as many of us only have some hours in the evening to work with the game.

This is of course not true for everyone, but I wanted to write down my thought about this as I have
been one of those "engine-switchers", spending years with switching to the new coolest thing and in
the end achieved nothing. Don't do that.

Think first, act then

I would very much agree with your statement Roland. Unless we as developer/developers are right at the start of our projects then the new learning curve is a significant factor which offsets the possible benefits of moving.

I remember looking at UDK some time back and estimating just some of the individual tools alone could take months to gain a good working knowledge of.

I am committed to Esenthel for the duration of my current project and unless I was planning some AAA project and inherited a large team I find it unlikely I would move to either of these two engines.

rstralberg: Well, we're not talking about switching; we're talking about the licensing.

Yes I know Tottel. This was just some personal reflections on this subject.
Didn't mean to "switch" subject ( hahaha

good point roland, i also wasted much with testing the latest thing. im careful of this, but i also think its also always good to know whats going on in the scene.
esenthel is currently the best solution for me to produce multi platform games and i just love the workflow.
there are some features i would love to see like voxel terrain but im sure greg will work on that also as it is getting very popular. (pleeeeeeeeeeease )

So I was looking and thinking I should see about getting a copy of photochop. I had version 5 in the past, but it doesn't play nice with Win7/8. I figured I'd get a version or 2 behind, and save a bundle of cash. So I looked up the current version. Lo! Photochop has also gone the way of the subscription! It's surprisingly affordable, too. I'll be picking me up a year of the latest version in a month or 2.

So what then does it mean for the next stage of application evolution? Microtransactions? "You have selected to create a new layer! Each additional layers will cost 10 Adobe Coins! Would you like to: [Purchase layer 10AC] [Purchase Adobe Coins]"

(04-26-2014 08:11 PM)Rubeus Wrote:  So what then does it mean for the next stage of application evolution? Microtransactions? "You have selected to create a new layer! Each additional layers will cost 10 Adobe Coins! Would you like to: [Purchase layer 10AC] [Purchase Adobe Coins]"

Hahahaha

I have been playing with UE4 recently and it's so complex in-regards to all workflow, assets, programming, Esenthel is much more simple and although lacking features AAA engines have, i feel more comfortable with it.