(04-19-2014 12:23 AM)Fex Wrote:  Happy to support Greg, I don't want him having to go to work in the salt mines to pay rent when he should be at home working on the next patch.

I don't really think this will be necessary as to my knowledge, at least up until recently, Greg has held the position of Game Engine Designer at Grinding Gear Games in New Zealand and of course with his talents I would expect would be in demand in many game studios around the world (not that those positions come up often or are necessarily easy take up due to location changes).

However, I don't think this in anyway changes the situation that he deserves reasonable recompense for the work he puts into maintaining this engine and if that is done in his free time then most of us should sympathise with that position, doing the same ourselves and knowing how demanding that is on top of holding down a full time job or attending college!

Dwight is right, the cost on a weekly basis is minimal to most of us and other hobbies/interests often cost us much more than this.

I have seen the respect for software development over the years change, mainly I believe down to the appearance of 'open source' software and seemingly the belief of a lot of youngsters that if people charge a reasonable amount for their software then they are somehow 'ripping people off'. Yet most of those same people expect payment for the jobs they do and would be outraged if anyone suggested they should work for free.

So in retrospect, we shouldn't expect anything of value for nothing and we should support Greg if we expect this engine to develop and grow.

J wellington syndrome, developers are as much to blame as the consumer.

I'm no longer commenting on this, but just a thought... I like that Steve guy from Arteria or whatever; Lifetime membership; He got my money a long time ago, and he's almost certainly never going to get any more from me.

And yet, when I just asked him to do some personal modifications to a model for me so I can use it in Esenthel, he did it right away.

so somehow, that kind of business is possible. Makes you think.

(I did NOT mean to blame, be ironic, or anything else; I just wanted to point out that the policy of - help my customer even if i no longer expect anything from him - DOES exist. just that)

@AndresBGS
Remember that Arteria 3D is not in the same situation. They are selling many products, one by one or at subscription, while Esenthel is one product only. You cant compare apples with pears.
---

I can't really understand all this whining about EE. First of all EE price is more or less a bargain and the support is far better than I have seen with any engine. The roadmap is absolutely great. Besides that, EE is not full of bugs and clutter. Then we have this thing about owning the engine. As Esenthel have written and Dwight put so well above. Even if you own the engine you will have to update more or less each year anyway to keep up with new things in various OS and computer environment. The engine doesn't live in a bubble independent of what Windows, Apple and Linux does. So what the big deal, you will have to pay the money anyway. Getting such a great engine with source for roughly 200 bucks/year, that's a real bargain.

First there was a big hello about the subscription prices, so Esenthel did listen to you and lowered the price to a very compelling level. Now that's not good either. Now you want to own the engine for this price. I would personally be more or less ashamed to claim such things. If you need to own the engine with source, the price would be so much higher, probably by a factor 5-10. Are you willing to pay that...

I have been through this grumbling with some other engines and it seems that what ever the engine seller does it will always be wrong. Yearly updates - No.. to expensive, Subscription - No.. then we are hooked... Come on! EE is a good engine and has a very compelling subscription price. The difference between 'owning' the license or have a subscription is more or less semantic. In each case you have to make your updates anyway to keep up with the winds of change.

Just my little ranting on this.

(04-19-2014 11:21 AM)knocks Wrote:  J wellington syndrome, developers are as much to blame as the consumer.

What does this mean? And what if the developers ARE the consumers? o.O

(04-19-2014 03:13 PM)Rubeus Wrote:  

(04-19-2014 11:21 AM)knocks Wrote:  J wellington syndrome, developers are as much to blame as the consumer.

What does this mean? And what if the developers ARE the consumers? o.O

This syndrome is from the town of Wellington [I hope he means this, it's quite a rude statement otherwise], in which people from Wellington dislike literally everything from Auckland.

Implication for the case at hand: Whatever Greg does, you lot won't be satisfied.

(04-19-2014 03:13 PM)Rubeus Wrote:  

(04-19-2014 11:21 AM)knocks Wrote:  J wellington syndrome, developers are as much to blame as the consumer.

What does this mean? And what if the developers ARE the consumers? o.O

J wellington syndrome - from my understanding means basically ... receive or take something now, pay for it or deliver it later ... depending on the situation it's applied to.

(04-19-2014 02:03 PM)aceio76 Wrote:  ... So please be cognizant that while you can make statements that basically says "shut up and support EE because it costs less than what you would spend elsewhere in another hobby or vice", that isn't applicable to all and that there are real scenarios present that does warrant complaining and griping. And of course, there are those that have legitimate complaints but still support Greg and ee anyway

For the record ... I have never stated in any post that anyone's position, opinion or statements are irrelevant in any way or suggested people 'shut up' (thank you aceio76 for attempting to put words into my mouth )

I simply consider Esenthel good 'value for money' from my personal point of view. I see no point in commenting any further having made my opinion clear; preferring to concentrate my energy on my project development instead.

(04-19-2014 03:33 PM)Dwight Wrote:  

(04-19-2014 11:21 AM)knocks Wrote:  J wellington syndrome, developers are as much to blame as the consumer.

This syndrome is from the town of Wellington [I hope he means this, it's quite a rude statement otherwise], in which people from Wellington dislike literally everything from Auckland.

Implication for the case at hand: Whatever Greg does, you lot won't be satisfied.

(04-19-2014 04:58 PM)Pixel Perfect Wrote:  

(04-19-2014 11:21 AM)knocks Wrote:  J wellington syndrome, developers are as much to blame as the consumer.

J wellington syndrome - from my understanding means basically ... receive or take something now, pay for it or deliver it later ... depending on the situation it's applied to.

I'm going to write this down in my "Manly Notebook of Unreasonably Obscure References".

Just as a sidenote: During our discussions, Greg finished the following:
- 2 sets of Engine updates
- a small game release

(04-19-2014 05:22 PM)Rubeus Wrote:  I'm going to write this down in my "Manly Notebook of Unreasonably Obscure References".

Pixel summed it up. It was a play on words based on the Popeye character J Wellington Wimpy.

by purchasing the full year subscription license(with source) is it possible to use the game engine in it's entirety and have access to it's source code in offline mode? offline mode is really handy in my current situation.
P.S, I just wanted a confirmation so that I'll know I didn't misread anything.

(04-22-2014 10:25 PM)Cranky Wrote:  by purchasing the full year subscription license(with source) is it possible to use the game engine in it's entirety and have access to it's source code in offline mode? offline mode is really handy in my current situation.
P.S, I just wanted a confirmation so that I'll know I didn't misread anything.

Yes you have access all the engine, and all the tools (editor, server etc etc)
As it's on github, you can work on sources in offline mode, you just have to open them in Visual Studio for example

(04-22-2014 10:59 PM)Marbasoft Wrote:  

(04-22-2014 10:25 PM)Cranky Wrote:  by purchasing the full year subscription license(with source) is it possible to use the game engine in it's entirety and have access to it's source code in offline mode? offline mode is really handy in my current situation.
P.S, I just wanted a confirmation so that I'll know I didn't misread anything.

Yes you have access all the engine, and all the tools (editor, server etc etc)
As it's on github, you can work on sources in offline mode, you just have to open them in Visual Studio for example

thanks! I wasn't expecting a fast reply.. also, am I obliged to share the changes I've made on the source code to esenthel or anybody else?

(04-22-2014 11:17 PM)Cranky Wrote:  

(04-22-2014 10:59 PM)Marbasoft Wrote:  

(04-22-2014 10:25 PM)Cranky Wrote:  by purchasing the full year subscription license(with source) is it possible to use the game engine in it's entirety and have access to it's source code in offline mode? offline mode is really handy in my current situation.
P.S, I just wanted a confirmation so that I'll know I didn't misread anything.

Yes you have access all the engine, and all the tools (editor, server etc etc)
As it's on github, you can work on sources in offline mode, you just have to open them in Visual Studio for example

thanks! I wasn't expecting a fast reply.. also, am I obliged to share the changes I've made on the source code to esenthel or anybody else?

I guess no because Esenthel is not an open source software .But remember in order to keep using the software you should subscribe every year

You will have to compile and make the changes(to bypass the online verification) yourself. You do not have to share the changes.