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Manual Creation of Ragdoll
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llynx Offline
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Post: #1
Manual Creation of Ragdoll
I'm using nonstandard skeletons and cannot use ragdoll.create to make ragdolls. Is there a way to manually set up a ragdoll, say in the editor, based off of a skeleton?
12-31-2010 04:02 AM
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Esenthel Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Manual Creation of Ragdoll
what do you mean non-standard?
ragdolls can be made only from skeletons, you can preview them real-time in model editor "view/ragdoll"
12-31-2010 04:23 AM
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llynx Offline
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Post: #3
RE: Manual Creation of Ragdoll
Non-standard in this case is bones not scaled properly and some rotated in a way that joints do not work properly (due to intermediary software problems).

Is there a way to modify the scale/dimensions of the ragdoll Capsules around each bone without modifying the bone itself?
(This post was last modified: 12-31-2010 04:45 AM by llynx.)
12-31-2010 04:45 AM
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Esenthel Offline
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Post: #4
RE: Manual Creation of Ragdoll
bone capsules can be modified only by "scale" operator for skeleton bones
12-31-2010 04:46 AM
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llynx Offline
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Post: #5
RE: Manual Creation of Ragdoll
Yes but in order to get realistic skinning, some bones are not bent as much as the mesh, for example an Ragdoll capsule sticking out of the forearm instead of directly on the forearm. *pic below

Changing the scale of the bones doesn't change the animation but changing the direction of the bone messes up the animations.

And it doesn't seem possible to change the capsule direction/length atm so it seems I am out of luck. Not sure how complicated this would be to implement but it would help me greatly.


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(This post was last modified: 12-31-2010 05:00 AM by llynx.)
12-31-2010 04:56 AM
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Esenthel Offline
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Post: #6
RE: Manual Creation of Ragdoll
the issue is that your skeleton bone doesn't point in the right direction.
you should get it adjusted in the original source mesh, like max or something
12-31-2010 03:20 PM
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Masterxilo Offline
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Post: #7
RE: Manual Creation of Ragdoll
Quote:in order to get realistic skinning, some bones are not bent as much as the mesh
Why is this needed?
12-31-2010 11:03 PM
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llynx Offline
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Post: #8
RE: Manual Creation of Ragdoll
(12-31-2010 11:03 PM)Masterxilo Wrote:  
Quote:in order to get realistic skinning, some bones are not bent as much as the mesh
Why is this needed?

No, I think I've found the issue, The conversion process from Y-Axis up in Daz Studio to Z-Axis up in 3DS Max to Y-Axis up in ME results in "off" bone creation, so though the bones accurately affect the mesh, each bone's source is off and it's scale is off.

And apparently in 3DS Max there is no way to change the system axis to Y-Up.
01-02-2011 02:50 AM
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Driklyn Offline
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Post: #9
RE: Manual Creation of Ragdoll
There should be an option to change from right-handed matrix to a left-handed one when you export.
01-02-2011 06:41 AM
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llynx Offline
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Post: #10
RE: Manual Creation of Ragdoll
(01-02-2011 06:41 AM)Driklyn Wrote:  There should be an option to change from right-handed matrix to a left-handed one when you export.

I've never seen that type of option anywhere before, but anyway, apparently this is an FBX issue. (Honestly the worst file format in the universe) *Tempted to change the wiki entry to "It is used to provide inoperability between digital content creation applications.*

I've fixed the skeleton but now the issue is linking the the animations of the old skeleton to the new skeleton but I'll try to work something out.

Is there a way to transfer skinning data from one bone on a skeleton to "the same" bone on a different skeleton?

In fact, that sound like a useful feature, saving skinning data! (Vertex Paint Data). That would help me out tremendously atm.

It would be usefull to be able to save skinning data of bones then apply that skinning data to bones on a new skeleton, NOTE this implies on the same mesh!
(This post was last modified: 01-03-2011 09:59 AM by llynx.)
01-03-2011 09:50 AM
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Esenthel Offline
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Post: #11
RE: Manual Creation of Ragdoll
You just needto have the same bone names then when mesh is loaded just load the second skeleton it will be linked automatically and then resave the mesh
01-03-2011 10:32 AM
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llynx Offline
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Post: #12
RE: Manual Creation of Ragdoll
WOW! Thank you! That helps alot!
01-03-2011 03:14 PM
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Driklyn Offline
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Post: #13
RE: Manual Creation of Ragdoll
Seems like you got it fixed, but I'll just point this out anyways...

When exporting using FBX in 3DS Max 2010, expand Advanced Options, then Axis Conversion and change Up Axis from Z-up to Y-up.
01-04-2011 05:36 AM
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llynx Offline
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Post: #14
RE: Manual Creation of Ragdoll
(01-04-2011 05:36 AM)Driklyn Wrote:  Seems like you got it fixed, but I'll just point this out anyways...

When exporting using FBX in 3DS Max 2010, expand Advanced Options, then Axis Conversion and change Up Axis from Z-up to Y-up.

Yes that's true when exporting from 3DS Max to FBX, but there is no such option when exporting to OpenCollada though it's easy to just open up the DAE and change "Z-UP" to "Y-UP" to fix this. I think the skeleton issue may be with the way 3DS Max handles bones.

When I import an FBX into 3DS MAX and convert the bones into dummies I get this:

   

Then when I export to OpenCollada and open up in ME I get the following:

   

Whereas if I keep them as bones when importing the FBX into 3DS MAX they appear as little bones completely separate of each other and when exported through OpenCollada I get the following:

   

But still no cigar.

The "Helpers" shown in the first picture are exactly what I want my skeleton to look like once it's exported but I've searched alot and cannot find how to do this. "Anim -> Bone tools -> Bone On" Doesn't work, Re-exporting to FBX with export options "Convert Dummy's to Bones" continues to result in the last picture with incorrect scales/sources.
(This post was last modified: 01-04-2011 06:37 AM by llynx.)
01-04-2011 06:36 AM
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Esenthel Offline
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Post: #15
RE: Manual Creation of Ragdoll
The issue is that when you import FBX to 3ds max, you lose the correct bone orientation.
01-04-2011 11:06 PM
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