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Few Questions!
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MorgouBichtree Offline
Member

Post: #1
Few Questions!
(Forgive the wall of text, I tend to articulate with an unnecessary amount of detail and unfortunately ramble on.)

Hey, a friend of mine and I are researching around for an engine to use for a sort of Mount and Blade-ish style game, and while in the midst of looking we came across Esenthel. Coming from the absolute clean slated style of Unity to the nightmare that was Torque, we've looked at about a ton of engines and settled on using Unity 3D Pro until now.

The game itself, like previously stated, we planned on being similar to that in design with a ton of changes/improvements/etc. Although we would like to have it coop with the ability to have AI be fully supported, by no means do we want it to be an MMO (and we can settle on using P2P just fine.) After a showing on Esenthel's part, I decided to look further into the engine and overall I'm very impressed, enough so that I might actually buy a license. However, I have come across some complaints that I'd like to address before I commit to a license, and maybe some of you fine folk can assist me in this matter. (Being in a financially rocky situation, I don't have much money to spare so I'd like to make sure my money is going into a sound place.)

Some of the complaints that I've come across are listed, and hopefully can be addressed and/or resolved (not to be offensive either):
  1. The overall rendering performance of the engine being very slow. I can assume that there's a flurry of ways to optimize a scene, but I hear that occlusion culling is very slow or doesn't function properly/efficiently? I also hear that deferred rendering, and even forward rendering in some cases, are horribly slow and are poorly optimized. While I haven't really had an issue with that from any of the demos on my computers, I'd just like to ask why people would be suggesting that they are that sluggish and slow?
    -
  2. The lack of updates resolving necessary bugs and issues to the core of the engine or engine essentials, instead favoring adding new features. I know there being one developer for the engine, that updates aren't as handily available as say; Unity, UDK, Torque (god forbid Torque has a working update) which all have a bigger team, but I would like to believe that if bugs or unintended responses from the engine are being fixed.
    -
  3. The (possible) not so friendly nature of the users on the forum. Scrolling through some topics and whatnot, I haven't really noticed this, but it's been brought up a few times before and I thought I'd just ask. With that, I also heard that many of the reviews on, for example, DevMaster were from friends of the developer shamelessly promoting the engine. Not sure what to make of that either.
    -
  4. The lack of documentation. It's kinda hard to formulate a better explanation for this, but is there enough documentation, and is it being updated? Doesn't have to be regularly obviously, but is it being updated enough? Is there also enough documentation on that EsenthelScript deal?
    -
  5. Another performance question, but I also hear that having more than ten actors or so really bogs down the whole game. I can compromise on several things, but this I absolutely cannot. Having not absolutely massive, but big battles is one of the hallmarks of this game, and if it cannot do this, it's a deal breaker already. Also, this has to be done over the network with other players.

I figured that asking some of these questions would not only put my mind at ease, but also anybody else in the same position as I am looking through, asking the same questions I am after seeing the same stuff I have.

I really want this to work! After seeing the capabilities, the projects being used with Esenthel, and the recognition it's gotten, I was thoroughly impressed and even thrilled. With that, I'm not going to jump right in and purchase a license, just to experience buyer's remorse afterwards.

Thanks!
(This post was last modified: 06-05-2012 07:31 AM by MorgouBichtree.)
06-05-2012 07:27 AM
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Dwight Offline
Silver Supporter

Post: #2
RE: Few Questions!
Reading where those comments came from, I surely understand your concerns, although they are based on semi-facts, and not true facts.

Let us have a look at your questions:
1. We have a Skype team full of developers, and I have seen scenes with some nifty tricks to improve it overall already from some of our professional devs here; more performance optimizations are high on the roadmap.
2. Do look at bug-reports and the time of Esenthel himself responding to it. His favourite line in this is: "Will be fixed for next SDK". New features are also added once in a while, though this depends on what Esenthel thinks must be done first. Valid and strong arguements will increase priority (to my experience).
3. Not so friendly nature: We are quite friendly. There have been people here commenting as troll-queers believing they are the supreme rulers of everything. The only area they were ruling however is the space between the mattrass and their blanket. The community always aids those who are in need smile
4. Downloading the SDK gives all documentation needed, as well as over 100 tutorials that explain all basics of the engine. Don't expect advanced things, as you would have to code them yourself.
5. I saw a youtube video, and also tested it myself, with around 100 actors flying through the air. Perhaps someone can link the video? Can't find it anymore ...

Lastly, did you download the SDK? You can use the full SDK to your own likings and test out everything by yourself. grin

The difference between a license and the SDK is nothing for the SDK. We only have more source codes available giving us some more examples and possibilities of changing some core engine things.

Welcome to the community mate grin
06-05-2012 08:22 AM
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Tottel Offline
Member

Post: #3
RE: Few Questions!
3. I've read the reviews on DevMaster, they aren't from 'friends' from Esenthel. Each and every one of them is/was a user on these forums, working on a game. Some of them left, a lot of them are still using Esenthel.


5. This video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4qngdF1sYg smile
06-05-2012 08:27 AM
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cmontiel Offline
Member

Post: #4
RE: Few Questions!
Hi MorgouBichtree.

1. Rendering performance. I Can't say too much about this, I am working on a low poly game. I didn't found issues.

2. In the past weeks, I was requesting some bugfixes. Esenthel responses in a few hours max (sometimes in minutes), and as he says the problem is fixed for the next SKD.

3. No comments. I ignore that kind of ppl. Fortunately there are many experienced people in the forum that can help when needed.

4. There is enough documentation. Each header has good comments in their functions/variables. Maybe there are lack of online documentation but it isn't critical to work with EE.

5. I did a test with 100 characters (about 1600 polys each) and one scene (5k polys) on iPad. 30 constant fps. It should run faster on pc.

You will see that my english isn't very good, sorry about that.

IRC: irc.freenode.net
Channel: #Esenthel
06-05-2012 10:13 AM
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MorgouBichtree Offline
Member

Post: #5
RE: Few Questions!
Thanks for the responses so far, it means a ton! grin

Yeah, I've been checking out the downloadable SDK for about a day or so now and I haven't had any issues at all with it. I really like it, I just wanted to make sure some worries I had could be put to rest.

Any input is valuable input, and it's always appreciated! Hopefully I can get a few more responses from some other people just to hear what they would have to say.
06-05-2012 05:21 PM
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Rofar Offline
Member

Post: #6
RE: Few Questions!
#3 - Don't worry about that one. These forums are full of very professional, knowledgeable, and helpful people. There is always a chance of a bad apple in comunities and although I have seen some people not get along on these forums, I still think individually, those people are not purposely negative or trying to cause discord.
06-05-2012 10:23 PM
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