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Grace period (V2 editor starting with no internet connection)
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gwald Offline
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Post: #1
Grace period (V2 editor starting with no internet connection)
Any chance of giving your licensed developers a grace period when not connected to the internet?
A 24 hour grace period from last server auth would be nice before turning into demo mode (unusable for me)?

I don't have internet at home and use (very limited) 3g data.
I bought the v2(beta) when it didn't require server authenticating.

I'm not complaining, I think it's good to protect the software but not at the expense of legitimate users.

I'm just requesting a fair grace period.
I know others are unfairly inconvenienced by this.
I hope you understand.
(This post was last modified: 06-02-2013 12:46 PM by gwald.)
06-02-2013 03:05 AM
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Rubeus Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Grace period (starting with no internet connection)
To avoid changing the computer ID when I'm using remote desktop, I leave EE open all the time because it only checks for license info on startup. I'd think that you could do the same thing. smile
06-02-2013 07:03 AM
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knocks Offline
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Post: #3
RE: Grace period (starting with no internet connection)
Online check should be once or twice a month, main reason have stuck to v1,
God love Australian internet!
06-02-2013 07:22 AM
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Pixel Perfect Offline
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Post: #4
RE: Grace period (starting with no internet connection)
I suffer the same frustration as my development PC is not always on-line due to it having to be physically moved sometimes to a location where I can't connect, so leaving it powered on is not an option. A grace period, as gwald is suggesting, would solve this issue for me because you can't believe how annoying it is knowing I'm a licensed developer and getting asked to buy the product every ten minutes along with the other restrictions!

I appreciate your need to protect from piracy but feel some compromise could be struck to avoid genuine licensed users being inconvenienced.
06-02-2013 09:01 AM
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AndrewBGS Offline
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Post: #5
RE: Grace period (starting with no internet connection)
Same here, while I do understand the need for on-line connection, it is very frustrating when I'm gone for several days to the countryside or something like that, I can only toy with map or code, but I can't add anything new, and I gt interrupted all the time;

But here's what Greg would reply:
"If you do that grace period thing, what's to stop you from giving your licence to a lot of friends, each going online for a couple of minutes just to licence then go offline, and thus they could all enjoy the same licence using the grace period". Sure it would be a lot of trouble for them and personally I'm not even sure it's worth it, I'm just saying Greg might not agree to this and we might want to think of some other method.

All in all, I'd really like some workaround this issue; it is very frustrating when I can't connect to the internet but I have lots of time and ideas to work with.
06-02-2013 09:15 AM
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Rigs Offline
Member

Post: #6
RE: Grace period (starting with no internet connection)
I only have Internet through my phone, switching between 2 sim cards. One blocks VOIP but allows personal hotspot (iPhone) so that I can connect my laptop. I use Skype a lot, so hardly connect my pc.
The online verification frequency puts me off.
I'm ready to buy Esenthel, but with limited Internet on my pc, I think I would be in demo mode 99% of the time.

@AndrewBGS
Let's say I have 2 computers (or more) and I want to use Esenthel on any I choose. If the license is on computer 'A' but I want to use it on computer 'B', it would be no problem to connect 'A' and have the license taken off it before it is put on 'B'. 'A' would then be in demo mode.
(This post was last modified: 06-02-2013 09:57 AM by Rigs.)
06-02-2013 09:39 AM
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gwald Offline
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Post: #7
RE: Grace period (starting with no internet connection)
(06-02-2013 07:03 AM)Rubeus Wrote:  To avoid changing the computer ID when I'm using remote desktop, I leave EE open all the time because it only checks for license info on startup. I'd think that you could do the same thing. smile

I don't leave my PC on 24hrs, I like to turn things of at the wall.
In Aust. elect is 30+ cents a KWH and going up! (welcome to the carbon tax!).

(06-02-2013 07:22 AM)knocks Wrote:  Online check should be once or twice a month, main reason have stuck to v1,
God love Australian internet!

I'm Australian too, and our internet is a rip off and slow!
So I don't have it at home.
I would agree once a month check is suffice... but would be happy with 24hours personally.

Also, there is no way of using v2 like v1 because you can export code to VS but if you don't copy back to v2 editor 100% correct,next time you build it will remove the build folder you coded on and the changes made are lost.

Does any one know how to use v2 editor with VS without overwriting code changes?

(06-02-2013 09:01 AM)Pixel Perfect Wrote:  you can't believe how annoying it is knowing I'm a licensed developer and getting asked to buy the product every ten minutes along with the other restrictions!

Yip, that's me!

(06-02-2013 09:15 AM)AndrewBGS Wrote:  But here's what Greg would reply:
"If you do that grace period thing, what's to stop you from giving your licence to a lot of friends, each going online for a couple of minutes just to licence then go offline, and thus they could all enjoy the same licence using the grace period". Sure it would be a lot of trouble for them and personally I'm not even sure it's worth it, I'm just saying Greg might not agree to this and we might want to think of some other method.

This is a petty argument and can be detected on the server (license movements).
Obviously, there's is a trade off which he's making.
Securing the software at the expense of genuine license holder isn't a very good feature. Anti priracy only harms genuine users and this is the worst I've experienced.
(This post was last modified: 06-02-2013 12:50 PM by gwald.)
06-02-2013 12:15 PM
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Esenthel Offline
Administrator

Post: #8
RE: Grace period (V2 editor starting with no internet connection)
Grace period has issues, because as it was mentioned it could be used to use 1 license for multiple users.

If that would be present, you could do tricks such as:
-change the date multiple times in your computer to pretend that still only 1 day has passed since last license verification
or
-block EE by firewall after checking the license, to pretend you don't have internet so EE cannot verify it, but assume you're on grace period, even though you can enjoy internet for other programs
or
-more ideas could probably emerge

Quote:This is a petty argument and can be detected on the server (license movements).
Not necessarily, what if you're legitimate user, who just moved to different appartment/city (or moves very frequently between them) and just wishes to use his license on different computers/places (at home, at friend's, at parent's) by himself multiple times during a day.
That would very difficult to detect if you're switching the license on different computers, or if somebody else is doing that.

Therefore the best solution that I've decided, is if the app just checks the license every time.
I think that at this age internet is very common, in PC's and even mobile (Tablets, Cell phones) even if on country side. You could purchase cheap internet plan for your cell phone, and make wi-fi hotspot it to your computer just to check the license.

I know it's not perfect, but I'm not aware of other/better piracy-proof solutions.
06-02-2013 02:48 PM
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TheElk Offline
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Post: #9
RE: Grace period (V2 editor starting with no internet connection)
Hi my only concern is what happens if something happens to you or the site then we can't use the software anymore. Have you put in place for something should this ever occur.
06-02-2013 03:41 PM
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aceio76 Offline
Silver Supporter

Post: #10
RE: Grace period (V2 editor starting with no internet connection)
(06-02-2013 03:41 PM)TheElk Wrote:  Hi my only concern is what happens if something happens to you or the site then we can't use the software anymore. Have you put in place for something should this ever occur.

This has exactly been an important point for me from the beginning with the engine overall (ie. what happens when he decide to quit or something else, will he "open-source" the engine like others have when they stop working on the engine, etc.), but even more especially with the type of security in place with 2.0. Don't get me wrong, Grzegorz is great and is a top notch developer, but I know I have to acknowledge the fact that he is a single person and does not have a backup to himself that will continue the great work he's done should he decide to have a long vacation, take a break, etc.

I'm glad someone else recognizes this.
06-02-2013 03:49 PM
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candam Offline
Member

Post: #11
RE: Grace period (V2 editor starting with no internet connection)
(06-02-2013 03:41 PM)TheElk Wrote:  Hi my only concern is what happens if something happens to you or the site then we can't use the software anymore. Have you put in place for something should this ever occur.


I trust Greg 100% percent and I'm pretty sure he is doing his best to keep the service up all the time and I guess we must respect his right to protect his software copyrights and I think there will be solutions to situations like this I hope sosmile
06-02-2013 04:28 PM
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TheElk Offline
Member

Post: #12
RE: Grace period (V2 editor starting with no internet connection)
I have no problem with the way it is setup, I was talking if something happens to him. I hope it never does. But what if.........
06-02-2013 04:29 PM
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candam Offline
Member

Post: #13
RE: Grace period (V2 editor starting with no internet connection)
(06-02-2013 04:29 PM)TheElk Wrote:  I have no problem with the way it is setup, I was talking if something happens to him. I hope it never does. But what if.........

I hope God Bless him and about the things you're saying


let's all agree to confess one thing is that we agreed to these terms

one of them was

Quote:Internet connection is required at startup of the Editor to verify your license key

so we must stick to Greg and support him that's it smile
06-02-2013 04:34 PM
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aceio76 Offline
Silver Supporter

Post: #14
RE: Grace period (V2 editor starting with no internet connection)
@candam: That is not what TheElk is saying. To explain further, if you (candam) own your business and you are using ee to make games so you can sell it and make money from it so you can pay yourself and your team, wouldn't you be concerned if something "does" happen to Grzegorz, since that will likely mean that the engine will stop being supported, licensing will stop allowing users to work as licensed users, etc?

If you are familiar with "life insurance", it is exactly that. No one wants to talk about it, but it's a very important thing to have because when "something" does happen, that insurance is more or less the life-saver. In our case, we may not have any insurance. I'm not saying something "will" happen, I'm just saying that something could, and we're not prepared for that if it does.

However, I will say that Grzegorz have every right to protect his licensing with his users. I think the biggest challenge is being able to support that need without compromising the usability of the software and inhibiting legitimate users from having full functional access to what they are licensed to use.
06-02-2013 06:29 PM
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Shatterstar Offline
Member

Post: #15
RE: Grace period (V2 editor starting with no internet connection)
I completely agree with Aceio76. But I would like to add a little of my own opinions smile This game engine has the potential to be the biggest on the market today. I truly believe that. But there are a few things, I feel, are preventing that from happening. I'm going to name them, just to entertain the community...lol. smile And I'm going to try and find a few solutions.

1.) Problem- It is developed by one man. What if he decides to not work on the engine anymore, or something happens to him to where he can no longer work on the engine.
Solution- Hire a staff that helps you develop your game engine. If you can't afford to hire a staff, percentage of profit upon release will help you pay your employees for their work. You don't even have to pay Interns. They will work for you just to build a portfolio. Make sure you have a business license if you don't already have one. Make sure you have a written will that someone inherits your business if anything should ever happen. If whomever inherits, knows nothing about making an Engine, or game development, then it's okay...you already have a team in place. People like to see team development more. It makes them feel more secure about using an Engine.

2.) Problem- There is no Asset store.
Solution- make a store that people can submit models, plug-ins, custom anything, and it would generate excitement. People would have hope that they could possibly make a little money off of their own ideas.

3.) Problem- No Console support for Xbox or Playstation
Solution- support it

4.) Problem- No animation editor and particle editor.
Solution-bring it back. people always love more features.

5.) Problem- better documentation
Solution- Find a way to make a better documentation layout.

Even though these problems still exist, we might think its the best game engine out there, but it's convincing the rest or the world that matters. If these problems were fixed, met with real solutions, I believe the sky would be the limit for Esenthel Company, and for Greg, making it the Largest game engine company in the world that is geared toward indie development.

Maybe he doesn't want to be the largest...I don't know. Maybe he wants to keep a small tight knit community. But I Just wanted to say...the potential for large growth is there.
06-02-2013 07:13 PM
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