hi,

my importand question is. is a Ineisis Lite version available for personal license members? alot of usern have no company. maybe a second option "buy and upgrade your PL with Ineisis Lite for maybe xxx $ or so" without the other sourcecode from the CL, only Ineisis lite source. thats very helpfull for us and also for your moneybag

regards

You dont need to have a company to by a company license I suppose, you just have to pay (I think).

i hope^^ but how mutch I've got my credit card ready

plx support give us the answer

you don't need a company, you just need to purchase the license (there is no other option)

yes but the license cost 600$ and i think this is too mutch. can you not make a special price? and when i upgrade than i have the company license. look to the Bigworld engine, cost now 299$ for indies with fantastic tools source and stuff. but is indie^^ I hope you think again about it. the market is highly competitive. I love the esenthel engine and would like to do more with, but there is always the one away obstructed. if I should be wrong and missed something then was not intentional.

keepsmile^^

(01-18-2012 06:18 PM)knalldose Wrote:  yes but the license cost 600$ and i think this is too mutch. can you not make a special price? and when i upgrade than i have the company license. look to the Bigworld engine, cost now 299$ for indies with fantastic tools source and stuff. but is indie^^ I hope you think again about it. the market is highly competitive. I love the esenthel engine and would like to do more with, but there is always the one away obstructed. if I should be wrong and missed something then was not intentional.

keepsmile^^

Bigworld is not good argument. Worst support ever, they totally ignore indie customers (and they publicly told, that from indie they have no money, so they will not give it priority), build for indies is different from other licences and it is cca 1 version old (1.x, normal is 2.x, WTF?!) and even if they claim ont the website, that you can buy source code indie licence, they will never sell it to you (lots of people on the forum tried).

Check their forum, from my point of view it is scam.

(01-20-2012 12:21 AM)Demostenes Wrote:  Bigworld is not good argument. ...

Are you serious? Do you have any idea how much value a complete (and proven) MMO backend thats ready to go adds? Its a huge part of any MMO. That alone puts it in a different league.

Because of the competition many AAA graphics engines are now freely available. Sure, most have royalty clauses or income limits etc, but if your project turns out that successful whats the problem with paying royalties etc?, and if it doesn't - well then it cost you nothing, AND you gained some experience on a AAA engine. These are top end engines (and complete) - which add the benefit of not having updates all the time.

But one with a well designed and tightly integrated MMO backend ready to go ... priceless.

Never been a better time to be an indie developer, the engine market is totally over saturated giving us limitless options to fit any budget. And if it’s a mmo you wish to develop you would be crazy not to consider hero, or bigworld if you want a head start.

(01-28-2012 04:48 AM)knocks Wrote:  Bigworld if you want a head start.

I agree, that if everything claimed on their website was true, it is bargain of life.

BUT again (read my previous post, not only first sentence), Indie version of BW is scam. Zero support, one generation behind commercial (old code) and they will not sell you source code even if they claim it on website. If you dont believe me, read their forum, people there are desperate.

HE is very risky too (hidden costs), read the licence.

@Demostenes:

A scam is where you pay for something and get nothing. BWT is not a scam. If you were thorough enough to read more posts, you would see BWT is even offering a refund if customers are not happy. I would love to have the opportunity to purchase a company version of Esenthel and if I'm not satisfied get a refund.

Support : Again, think. You are getting a 5 figure engine for the price of a pair of sneakers. How can you still expect full support? BWT has hundreds of customers (who pay 5 figures) to support - which they do. If you want support, pay for it.

Also remember its a complete and proven engine, and has many released games .. so it all works. Its not vaporware.

Good support, like here at Esenthel, is really necessary when an engine is being developed or in early stages, but once theres loads of published games then not so much ... wiki, samples and forum support should be more than adequate. As for them not releasing the latest version for Indies in a rush .... the version they are released is complete so whats the rush, why MUST it be the latest? The simple fact is .. .they are not rushing to get latest release to Indies (or the source version) for a good reason - the income from Indie versions is nothing - and they have plenty of paid work to do.

The complaints you read about versions is from fans who want the latest bells and whistles - this is normal. On the other hand, some forums delete those (negative) type of posts, BWT is honest enough to leave them there.

---

(01-28-2012 06:47 PM)Demostenes Wrote:  HE is very risky too (hidden costs), read the licence.

Welcome to games development.

If you think any other alternatives are not costly, think again.

HE offers a ready to go solution, you don't need any h/w or s/w for the backend, they even supply staff and manage it for you ... of course its going to have a cost.

(01-29-2012 12:21 AM)impi Wrote:  @Demostenes:

A scam is where you pay for something and get nothing. BWT is not a scam. If you were thorough enough to read more posts, you would see BWT is even offering a refund if customers are not happy. I would love to have the opportunity to purchase a company version of Esenthel and if I'm not satisfied get a refund.

First, I am not telling, that BW is scam. I am telling, that BW indie licence is scam. Again, read their forum and look at the reality. I see no point in buying many years old code (there is not even word on BW website, that indie licence is actually obsolete code with fragment of features presented on the website) with bugs, zero support and uncertain future. And especialy from company, who is claiming that they sell indie source licence and when you want buy it, they will laugh you out. Their statements was, that indies are generating no money, so they dont care. Indeed it makes sense, I am not surprised, they have far more interesting customers.

But if you want to do serious game as indie, you would never invest your time/money to building your product on such uncertain platform. Especially in case of MMO, where you need to plan many years in future.

Information about indie licence ale half truth, or lie. So from my point of view, BW indie licence is scam.

(01-30-2012 12:26 AM)Demostenes Wrote:  First, I am not telling, that BW is scam. I am telling, that BW indie licence is scam.

So ... you are saying a hugely successful company like BWT will scam and purposely upset Indies and hobbyists - and put their market and customerbase at risk? That really makes zero sense. No engine maker will do that.

But good luck recreating the backend when you get past playing with client. Even if you license a backend tech like netdog and integrate it and manage to get it done well (not easy) - two systems are never as efficient as one built right. And then you still don't have everything BWT Indie offers.

(01-31-2012 11:43 PM)impi Wrote:  So ... you are saying a hugely successful company like BWT will scam and purposely upset Indies and hobbyists - and put their market and customerbase at risk? That really makes zero sense. No engine maker will do that.

Read their official indie forum. Is it that hard? You obviously didnt do that. Why do you speak about something, you know nothing about? Because you are probably very lazy to do anything (you rather to continue telling nonsenses than do some googling), here are links:

https://forum.bigworldtech.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=780 (indies now does not have even 2.0+, they have something like 1.8 and commercial is almost 3.0)

https://forum.bigworldtech.com/viewtopic...urce#p3929 (source code licence for indies is still NOT available, but on the website they promo it already how long, two years ( http://indie.bigworldtech.com/index.php/...die-source )? They are also promising 2.0 for indies more that 18 months on that forums(!)

Liying on website and misleading indies (there is NO info about selling totally obsolete version of engine under indie licence) is SCAMMING.

So yes, even such company is scamming. Why not? Nobody knows, even people from industry have no clue about it. Only who bought licence knows....

I have an idea how about you not build an MMO as your first released game unless your some sort of super genius and have a few genius friends especially if your not interested in forking out money, because MMO's cost a lot of money to develop(unless you have ppl with different skills that will help for free). If you aren't willing to spend I suggest you not make a MMO as your first title and make something you can make money off of and sell it make money then come back to your MMO idea. Also instead of waiting for this if you need it tht bad just make your own if you cant then why are you here? But if having this is really that important fork out the extra cash and buy it..

Well I don't believe someone should not take on the idea of an MMO 'because its too big'. In reality any really decent game is going to be too big for most hobbyists, and the fact is most projects will never complete.

So why work on something you don't enjoy for years (which will kill your passion), when you could work on your dream and enjoy it.

Life is a journey, not a destination. So enjoy the ride.

I'd go as far as to say if one started a smaller game 'to make some income' with the view of taking on an MMO later, in >90% cases you'll never experience the MMO project.

Esenthel could be ideally placed to give hobbyists an opportunity to work on their large 'dream'. But then, more recently, so is other (proven) MMO techs like BWT Indie and Hero etc.